We discussed e-commerce with Éric Senechal from Prestashop.

You are in control of your solution and can adapt it as you face new challenges. Hello, you are listening to Loyoly Talks, the podcast that makes e-commerce simple. Once a month, I welcome an inspiring figure from the French e-commerce ecosystem for an informal discussion among friends on topics that fascinate them. The goal is to decipher e-commerce trends and share practical tips to make your e-shop a success. I'm Joseph Aubry, co-founder of Loyoly, the loyalty and referral platform that allows you to engage your customers through more than 50 mechanisms. Sharing, user content, customer friends, and much more to increase your LTV and reduce your CAC. If you like Loyoly Talks, subscribe and feel free to leave us stars on Apple Podcast or Spotify to support us. Enjoy listening. Eric, it's great to have you on the podcast. Nice to meet you too, Joseph, I'm delighted to be here with you. Yes, yes. We're going to spend a little while together. That's right. Yeah, it should be about an hour. Okay. And it's going to be pretty cool because I have lots of topics I wanted to discuss with you. Obviously, we're going to talk about e-commerce. But what I'd really like to do with you is take a step back and look at the challenges facing e-merchants today. Okay. We'll cover a lot of things, omnichannel retailing, internationalization, COD, and so on. And then, if you're okay with that, the idea would be for you to explain a little bit about these challenges, give some advice for the merchants listening to us, and then talk about how PrestaShop helps merchants respond to these challenges. Sounds good. Perfect. I've prepared a short introduction, and then I'll let you fill in the gaps. Okay. So, to quickly introduce yourself, you're the CEO of PrestaShop. It's one of the most widely used solutions in Europe. I believe there are 250,000 merchants using it worldwide. Worldwide, that's right. So quite a lot in Europe and also South America, from what I understand. Yes, we're the leader in Latin Europe. In fact, we have 25% of stores in France. You'll find another 20% in Spain and Italy, 20% in Spain, 18% in Italy, and the rest in South America and a little bit in Asia and Eastern Europe. We're coming to Poland and Lithuania too, thanks to our partners, and we're doing pretty well there too. Interesting, interesting. In fact, it's the open source model that has encouraged adoption. Yes. We'll be able to talk quite a bit about the open source aspect. Maybe before we get started. Would you like to add to my presentation? Can you explain your background in a few words? If you like, I can explain my background. Well, I'm more of a computer engineer by training, with a focus on applied math, let's say. I started out in industry, but I've been working in new technologies for 30 years and have been heavily focused on e-commerce for 15 years. I've managed two agencies that have integrated various e-commerce solutions. My partner created an e-commerce site on PrestaShop, and I set up a start-up in data and e-commerce site performance. We manage performance and how to improve it, not on the technical side, but rather on the conversion and engagement side. We have paid traffic, which we'll talk about later, but how can we do better? We were partners with various solutions, including PrestaShop, and in 2020, I joined PrestaShop as CTO, and I've been the CEO for two and a half years now. Okay, great, that's very impressive. To get to the heart of the matter, you mentioned the open source model earlier. Could you explain that for those who aren't familiar with it? Could you perhaps explain in a few words how it differs from more standardised models in general terms? Well, the open source model is first and foremost a distribution model, which allows for widespread adoption, as we see with PrestaShop, but above all, it allows you to customise and have control over your software. Our model is based on the reputation of the merchants and their solutions, and it allows us to adapt to the context, whether we are in France, Vietnam, Italy, or Germany. We don't have the same codes or the same e-commerce codes. We'll talk about intelligence later, and so the strength of PrestaShop on this open source model is that it allows customization and allows people, agencies, and experts who adopt the solution to develop typically local features. And that's what has made PrestaShop so successful: when you deploy the solution in a certain territory or in a vertical business context with specific codes, you'll have the right payment solution. Payment solutions are not the same in Africa as they are in Europe, and even when you zoom in on Europe, they're not the same every time you have a different context. The specificity ofopen source and customization and its ability to adapt is what we're betting on. Software agility, ultimately. Okay, that's very clear. Listen, one of the first topics I wanted to discuss with you is this omnichannel dimension that we're hearing more and more about. I talked about it on my previous podcast with Maxime from Cher Clients, but an interesting figure is that the price of good salespeople has increased by 11% over the last five years, I believe, while at the same time, acquisition costs have increased by 70% over the last five years. So, in fact, this omnichannel retail model is making a bit of a comeback in order to diversify acquisition channels, improve retention, and so on. And you also did a study with Peplog, I believe, which shows that 40% of Gen Z consumers say they buy as much online as they do in stores. That's 6 points higher than the rest of the population. You might think that Gen Z buys everything online, but that's not the case at all. So I was quite curious to hear your opinion on this. Perhaps to start with, in your opinion, where are retailers today in terms of omnichannel retailing? First of all, when you talk about retailers, we need to distinguish between different levels of maturity. Obviously, retailers who are at a very advanced level are the big players, such as Fnac, for example. They have seamless integration, and you can see that all their processes have been optimized to ensure this fluidity, whether it's click and collect, store reservations, etc. You'll have in-depth use of customer data, so you'll have really strong reconciliation of customer data across processes. Then you'll have a second category with the intermediate level, where you have initial operational experiments, integration with PR, and prioritization of certain features, particularly centralized logistics. And then you have those who are just starting out, and there we can clearly see that there is a difficulty in ensuring consistency between your online experience and your in-store experience. So, when we talk about retailers, we have distinguished different categories, but in the best recipes for successful omnichannel retailing, there is the issue of stock, the centralization of stock, which I mentioned earlier, and customer data, which also needs to be consolidated so that you have a consolidated view of customer data, because ultimately, Gen Z consumers want a seamless experience and they want to be recognized, so that's it, and then of course there are practices such astalked about that, and customer data, having a consolidated view of customer data, because ultimately, Generation Z consumers want a seamless experience and they want to be recognized, so there you go. And then, of course, there are click-and-collect practices, there are practices that need to be integrated, and of course, the choice of tools is where we can position ourselves on the subject, for example. If you want me to zoom in a little... Yeah, that was my question, how PrestaShop helps merchants develop their omnichannel strategy. Yeah, we launched PrestaShop Intof Sale, as you know. Yes. So it's already live. It's already live. In fact, PrestaShop is well suited to SMEs and those who want to go digital. We give them the tools to go digital with PrestaShop and have a fully integrated experience. We'll have instant stock synchronization thanks to the solution, and we'll have a single administration interface. I was looking at my notes from time to time, but an improvement in the experience. So we really have, and of course, the cash register software that goes with it. We have a system that retains the fundamentals and strengths of PrestaShop in terms of its agility and customization capabilities, but which integrates omnichannel capabilities, i.e., a seamless experience, centralized inventory, and customer experience, which for me are the essential aspects of omnichannel retailing. And so yes, you have this hardware part now too, I imagine, so that must have been a big challenge as well. So we have a strategic partnership with a partner who integrates the hardware part and this effectively allows us to offer a seamless solution to merchants who have two or three stores and an online presence. Yeah, of course. Right. And so you talked a little bit about the dimensions that were important in this omnichannel aspect and how Presta was able to address them. Conversely, do you see any pitfalls that you think some merchants might fall into? We've touched on the pitfall a little bit, and it's with those merchants—I'm not talking about the big ones. Yes, of course, they're already very mature on the subject. They'll have dedicated inventory, and so on. But the pitfall is precisely the inventory. You see separate management, which can lead to dissonance, so that's important. You buy online and you come to pick it up, and it has to be there, it can't have been moved to another store. It's as simple as that, really. You see, the technical complexity is where integrated solutions like ours make it easier to adopt. I think we often forget the human dimension; you have to train people. Yeah, that's clear. You see, simply underestimating the training and processes behind it is a trap. Exactly, and that's what will prevent you from having the unpleasant experience where the HNZ consumer doesn't want to know whether you're small or large. They want certain things, they have certain codes and expectations that go with them. So that's it: training, consistency across channels, harmonized pricing, and of course consumer satisfaction and good customer feedback management. So it's not, you know, we've acquired a feature, we're more focused on inventory management, customer experience, customer feedback, and your staff needs to be strong. It's HR, yeah. Interesting. Second topic: international expansion. So today, it's true that more and more merchants are launching internationally, and technical solutions like Presta allow them to evolve fairly quickly into new markets. I wanted to introduce the topic, still based a little on your study with Péplog. So, there are some who are working on it. What I noticed is that when asked how often they buy from foreign websites, 35% of consumers say they always buy from foreign websites because their favorite brands are not available in France. So ultimately, what this means is that the boundary between markets is becoming increasingly blurred. And so I was a little curious to hear your point of view on this. From your experience, what are the essential criteria for merchants listening to us who want to launch on new markets? Okay. You mention it perfectly, there are fewer borders in some ways. Thin borders are the only borders that matter, and they're coming back into fashion. I think it's customs duties that are the issue here. And that's where we are right now, and we're all going to have to deal with it. I think that the challenge of international expansion is a strong growth lever for our e-merchants. We see it in their maturity, in the revolution. I'm talking about our merchants, those who use the PrestaShop solution. The key to success is not to believe that because you've managed to break into one market, the same formula will work in another country. So for me, it's about adapting to the local context. It always comes back to the fundamentals. You can't address the market as a whole. Our German neighbors don't have the same codes as our neighbors in France. Take returns, for example. Returns even apply to payment and shipping. In France, we are very fond of collection points. This is less common elsewhere. Historically, Germany likes cash on delivery when I receive the product. So you have codes that are specific. So if I have one piece of advice for e-merchants, when considering opening up their offering to other countries, is to adapt the solution to suit the country's codes with the right payment solution and the right logistics solutions, for example. So, I think those are the main challenges, and then, of course, there's the localization of your offering, so there may be additional legal constraints that need to be addressed. I'm from Bordeaux, so when we sell wine andyou want to sell in certain countries, it's much more complicated, so don't underestimate the legal aspect of this expansion. And then there are accelerators, which we'll talk about later, but the intrusion of AI also facilitates this localization, both in the product pages and in the support, so that's kind of the message I'd like to convey about internationalization. Yes, it's not enough to just duplicate your site, translate it, and go. Prestashop has multi-store features, but just because you've activated multi-store doesn't mean you're done. What's great about our solution is that you can also activate local payment solutions and local logistics solutions that really take into account consumer habits. Okay. Very interesting. I think that's something that's on the minds of a lot of merchants, in my opinion. Do you have any examples of Presta merchants who have had a successful launch in new markets? Well, there are a few, actually. I wanted to talk about one that I could mention because we have a few. I have 20 websites with a well-known figure, you know, with a famous player. I'm thinking of Eric Carrière, who set up Carrière Cellars, specializing in Burgundy wines, and who has expanded internationally with considerable success. Okay. In B2C, and even B2B with PrestaShop. It's a great reference that I really like. You have another great reference in French production. Let's use French examples. I have another one in Spain in wine with Cantalous but Magimix. Yes, yes, yes. Magimix, a great online success in France, but you can also order from Australia, for example. I don't think I've been doing it for very long. So there you have it, with payment solutions tailored to each local market. Two examples like that that I hadn't prepared. Yes, it's toys, the joys of live broadcasting. Yes, that's right. No, but they're great examples. So, I think those listening to us can also take a look around websites in other markets. How exactly they were able to adapt their purchasing process a little. Now, for the third topic, I'm thinking of a subject that is close to your heart. Ah. It's not wine, sorry, it's not all about wine in life. Yes, that's true. But you're right. So it's precisely this aspect of controlling ownership of the online business. That's kind of PrestaShop's spearhead. So once again, I'm highlighting the work of your teams, who have published a white paper that really sets the record straight. And in fact, it explains in concrete terms—you'll explain it to us in detail, but basically—how to accurately calculate the long-term cost of owning an online business. So, from your perspective, can you explain a little bit about your vision of this aspect of business ownership? Well, it's a topic that I think is becoming increasingly relevant. For me, there are two models: it's like in real life, where you either rent or buy an apartment or a house. Both models are good, of course, but ownership is also a good model, and that's clearly where we stand. We have competition in SaaS offerings, of course. But we have a number of players who are sticking with models that may have a SaaS solution, but we, on our side, have released a Pass solution and we have an Open Source solution. Pass is for those who want Platform as a Service. In other words, you take PrestaShop Enterprise, for example, and we'll operate it. Okay, fine. But you still own your e-commerce site. Okay. So why do we firmly believe in this model? Because when you have ambitions in business and your investments will adapt to the challenges you face. You start by acquiring traffic. You take your first steps in development. Then, as you go along, you try to optimize the traffic that is costing you money, and we'll talk about that later. And then you'll want to expand internationally. So, if you have control over your solution, you'll be able to adapt it as you face new challenges. So we are in a strong position. It's this freedom that we give to our merchants, the users of the Prost'en shop solution, because they have both control and customization as they want it. We can also come back to the elements that differentiate us from the fierce competition. E-commerce has many players. You have to be able to customize to the context. So this ability to customize is important. We also talked about customizing with local logistics solutions, and so on. This model allows for that in a big way. The second topic is control over your data and the location of your data. This is becoming increasingly important in our context. So there you have it, and then you have control over your costs. You adapt your scope, let's say your costs, to your economic reality and the issues of profitability for e-merchants, which are becoming increasingly important, at least in the medium term. It starts with an investment phase, but then you have to be able to scale back. The other model allows you to move quickly with a much lower than normal capacity to adapt. You use online services, and when you invest in connectivity, etc., for these solutions, you're stuck with the publisher and therefore you also have to pay the price of your rental. And after a year and a half, you have a player who increases their prices by 25% or 30% between 25% and 30%. When you've invested $100,000 or $50,000 in projects on that solution, you can't see them anywhere else, so you're stuck with the price. So, philosophically speaking, these two systems are different. They're both valid, but one is perhaps more commercial, while the other is strategic, and so at that point you have to consider, I mean, ownership, let's say. Yeah, that's an interesting analogy, tenant versus owner. Yes. It's true that often we might say we want to move quickly, but we mustn't forget that in the long term, it's always more profitable to own your website, just like your house, even if it requires a larger initial investment. Yes, and I think we underestimate the hidden costs. What do you mean, for example? Well, with property, you'll have maintenance costs, which we don't have with the SAS model, that's true, but with SAS, you'll find it more difficult to customize, and it will be more difficult to integrate with your information system over time, which will cost you more than if you have solutions or, in the case of Prestashop, for each software program on the market, we have a module that was created by our partners. That's for the local French context. For the local Spanish context, in Spain we don't have quite the same payment solutions, and we also have different software for CRM that is in use. These are costs that you don't estimate at the outset. And then in the SAS, you'll have potential hidden costs related to the use of traditional features. You're locked in, you may also have costs related to payment, etc. So when you make these decisions, there's the initial investment cost, but there are also long-term costs, and I advise merchants to have this holistic, comprehensive assessment of costs. Okay, very interesting. There you go. And could you maybe tell us a little bit more about the PrestaShop Enterprise model that you mentioned briefly? How did you evolve this initial offering into the Enterprise model, or Platform as a Service? PrestaShop Enterprise PrestaShop Enterprise is based on the belief that our open source ownership model is the right model for growing merchants who will need to adapt to the challenges they face as they grow. So we're keeping the fundamentals but also responding to a number of pain points, so to speak, of our merchants who, in our PrestaShop ecosystem, are still using older versions of PrestaShop. So what is PrestaShop Enterprise? It's the publisher, or the main contributor to the eponymous solution, which is us. We operate the software, update it, and implement all the security fixes that we can as they become available. So it's a guarantee for merchants who are scaling up that they have a technologically up-to-date solution and that they can, of course, scale up as their business challenges grow. So that's where we take a little more control and work with preferred partners, Prestashop experts, and our top experts with much higher technical standards and guidelines. And of course, we provide a number of advanced features, particularly in terms of performance, with stronger cash systems. So, where we would say that all of Prestashop's expertise in its solution takes shape is through Enterprise, which is a solution for medium-sized merchants with annual revenues above $700,000. At that point, you need to start looking at Prestashop Hunter. Okay. €700,000 in annual revenue. That's right, it's a platform with a subscription to the infrastructure, so it's not a rental system, but it does have a cost because we operate the solutionagreement, and then we have other optimized hosting solutions for those who are approaching these turnover figures and who may be a little more suited to their reality. Ultimately, the cost of ownership must be adapted to the economic reality of merchants, and then we always have our classic edition, which is widely adopted and integrated by our partners. Okay, so that's the range. And when was this model launched? We worked on it last year. It's really a strategic direction where we're raising the technical level of the community. We launched it at the beginning of the year and we have our first projects underway in Spain. It's funny, we signed it at almost the same time in France, Spain, and Italy, our strong territories. Okay. And another positive point is that with this offer, we're a little more visible to large companies that come to us for help with B2B issues in particular. We can't name them here, as we're still in talks with them, but we're now included in calls for tenders alongside major CMS players and large international companies with strong software portfolios. We're competing with them and we've been accepted, so we've adopted this approach for B2B issues, you see. It's an interesting shift. On the B2B side, since you mention it, here's how I see it. What's the situation at PrestaShop in terms of customer distribution? Because I get the impression that there are a lot of PrestaShop merchants who do B2B. Listen, it's not a minor part of our business, because the solution is adaptable to different contexts, and we also have expert agencies that are well versed in PrestaShop and have developed expertise in this area. The challenges are a little different, but B2B is now adopting the codes of B2C, so there's a demand for experience, which is why we're getting more and more requests. I don't have any figures in mind in terms of percentages, but it's starting to grow. It's not a major part of our business, which is mainly B2C, but it's becoming increasingly important. And then we're seeing PrestaShop being adopted by major retailers. The large AGD uses PrestaShop for their reapro. And in some ministries, precisely for reapro purposes. We're going to use PrestaShop. We also have contexts where you have activities that are both B2B and B2C, and you'll have a PrestaShop that will address both, and that's the functional richness of PrestaShop. For B2B pricing issues, we have price lists based on customers and then B2C codes. My first integration when I was at a PrestaShop agency was, if I may mention it, for Italian products. You had B2C done on PrestaShop and B2B also done on PrestaShop, and why was that interesting for them? Because they had the same connectors to their information system and their PR. Okay, yeah, that simplifies things a lot. We talk about omnichannel, but sometimes we have clients who do B2B and B2C. PrestaShop is tailored to their context. That's great. There you go. Listen, another topic that's quite important to me personally is the explosion in acquisition costs over the last few years. I mentioned it earlier, but it's up 70% over the last five years. There's also, well, it's been a while now, but iOS 14, which makes tracking more difficult, the end of costs that are driving up prices, channels that are completely saturated overall, also linked to the post-COVID e-commerce boom, where there are lower barriers to entry, so more competition, so more acquisition costs, which in turn raises questions. So there you have it, all these factors are quite problematic for the business model of merchants. And I was wondering if you, on your side, had any levers that would allow merchants to reduce their dependence on paid advertising. It's a great topic, you should invite Pavel Wizor, our marketing director, to talk about it. We used to have a start-up based on this very idea. That's why, with acquisition costs rising, it's important to convert visitors who enter your store. In fact, you pay visitors, you pay people to enter your store, and out of three hundred visitors, you might get three who buy something. Of those 300 visitors, maybe 3 will make a purchase. But you've brought the others in, and you've paid for them. So if you convert one more, you've got 25 for 100. So there's the conversion lever, of course, which allows you to effectively optimize the traffic you've acquired at a high cost. Of course, there's ongoing SEO optimization for natural referencing, but I think merchants are starting to get savvy. Or you're starting to see, and this is interesting, AI solutions that will optimize your product pages as well, and that's important. You can also create loss leaders for e-merchants that have a strong resonance that you won't necessarily sell a lot of, but that will attract traffic because you have the latest, state-of-the-art TV, for example, so we have some tricks up our sleeve there. Of course, you also build loyalty with a loyalty program, so with newsletters, targeted email campaigns, influence marketing, strategic partnerships, community development, and then reviews, reviews. Yeah, yeah. Right. And if I could name one e-merchant who has always impressed me in this area, it's not a Prestashop e-merchant. Historically, they were on s commerce. Okay. It's Maxi Coffee. MaxiCoffee. Okay, got it. They're very strong in terms of payment, but also very strong in acquisition via their YouTube channel with baristas and high-value content. There you go. You wanted to buy a coffee machine somewhere else one day, and then I ended up on their site, and I knew the founder well, and I ended up paying more for a machine on MaxiCoffee because I got good advice on that video too. It's reassuring, so that's why I'm worried. So that's a little summary of SEO, loyalty, and influence. Yeah. And for life. Yeah, that's clear. Yeah, I actually agree with you on that one. And let's talk about loyalty. Obviously, with these increasing acquisition costs, all entrepreneurs listening to us are tracking the LTV/CAC ratio. CAC is increasing significantly, so we also need to improve LTV significantly to ensure that we have a business model that simply works. Here's a little figure from a study by Oeil Yali: imagine that around 27% of consumers are actually willing to break off their relationship with a retailer if they feel that their loyalty is not being rewarded. Okay. I think this is quite symptomatic of the fact that there is more and more competition today. Everyone is very aggressive in acquisition with promotions, etc. So you also have to make your customers profitable if your competitor hasn't stolen them from you in the meantime. So that's still a big challenge for merchants. However, we can see that in France, we're a little slower off the mark. So we're still seeing a lot of traction on this issue. But compared to other markets, we're still quite a bit less mature when it comes to retention and loyalty. Do you have any idea why it's a little slower in France? I could use the same example of coffee machines. Okay. It's with the e-merchants, the e-merchants we know who use PrestaShop. We always use the same code. First, you have to exist. So how do we improve our points, our visibility? So I'm going to go through the marketplaces, through social media, it's acquisition, but we're really in the initial stages of an e-commerce business, it's visibility, so that's our first effort, in fact. Customer engagement and re-engagement come when we start to build up a significant customer base. And the tools you buy need to work, they need to have a significant customer base. So I think that's a recipe that applies to all territories. Why France is a little slow off the mark, I don't really know, but I think it's because if you want to achieve your goals, it comes second. Yes, I see. Loyalty programs, subscriptions, subscription systems come once you've established the relationship. I think that's one explanation for why there's a delay. It's not that they're behind the times, it's that strategically, you do it later. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Okay. And do you see a little bit of that? It needs to be challenged, but that's my view of what I'm observing, but no, no, it makes sense. I think that e-commerce is something that developed later in France than in other markets, so e-merchants aren't at that stage yet, even if we are currently seeing that it's a hot topic that everyone is looking into to improve their GDP. Do you see any retention strategies that are a little innovative or different in this context on PrestaShop sites? What's going to be interesting is the mix. In fact, to maintain the link with your customer base, first of all, it's product range extensions that allow you to re-engage the conversation, and this is key because, ultimately, it costs you more to acquire a new customer than to re-engage an existing one, and we all agree on that. Five times cheaper, I think. So you have a pretty interesting offer strategy, which is to expand your offer. You have product categories. At my previous start-up, we also looked at repeat purchases and estimated the interval between the first and second purchase. So the strategies that are interesting with partners we've seen, that we have at PrestaShop in marketing automation, are actually contact scenarios, of course post-purchase to find out how it went, but it's mainly re-engagement after 6 months because we know that after 6 months, I'm going to have a new collection when I probably have maintenance products related to the device I recently bought, an electric toothbrush, so there's a So that's what we're seeing with our merchants. So it's really a strategy based on the offer, on the product, in fact. It allows you to re-engage the conversation with them. And of course, there's always a strategy for loyal customers. Yeah, yeah. Potentially. I can't think of a specific brand example right now. Yeah, we have quite a few on our side, but it's true that to follow up on what you were saying, it might interest those listening. I was talking about reducing acquisition costs, which is the community part, the awareness part with influencers, the reassurance part with reviews, and user-generated content, which ultimately reduce the CAC. And that's kind of what we're trying to do at Loyoly. It's a bit of a combination of the best of both worlds, where we plug Loyoly into your e-commerce site and you can simply re-engage your customers by offering them loyalty points in exchange for reviews, but also create stories, make posts, send UGC, and follow your social media accounts to improve social proof and awareness while improving retention, since people are rewarded through the feed program for doing so. So there you have it, for those who are interested, feel free to go check it out. And then, of course. But anyway, that was the advertising moment. Yes, actually. No, but it's also new strategies. We need to share these best practices. And it's also a paradigm shift in how we're going to move from a truly transactional approach. We're just going to reward those who are already customers a little more. We're going to capitalize 100% on them in order to address these acquisition cost issues. That's why we have e-commerce sites and don't just go through marketplaces where we don't have, let's say, a grip on our merchants if we want an e-commerce site and also be able to maintain a relationship, as you so rightly say. Totally. We need to check out Loyoly. This excerpt will be cut and broadcast. No. Okay, so cut, I mean so that we can reuse it in our tube. Yeah, we'll remind you of the stories. Eric on Instagram. Go to Loyoly. Yes, of course. Now, you mentioned earlier about artificial intelligence and automation. It's hard not to talk about it on the podcast. You explained that there were AI solutions that would improve the overall customer experience and personalization to improve conversion. So that's what I think you were proposing with your startup, if I understood correctly. Yes, we were actually doing a lot of data in terms of, and we were developing at the time, we won't go into that, but based on the visitor's journey, what is their intention? We have a lot to do on the AI side. You were talking about speaking to your customers in a unique way. If you can also make a visitor's journey unique, you're monetizing the traffic you have. We talked about buying, buying. It's getting more and more expensive, so there you go. On AI, I think we're at the beginning. We've gotten a big boost with the latest advances. First, there's the AI that we apply at PrestaShop for our internal needs, and we incorporate it at all levels, but also in our development processes. And it's not necessarily the case that we're going to generate code with AI, but our tools are equipped for it. Increasingly, we're seeing that our support tools, our development tools, our collaborative document sharing tools, and so on, are becoming more and more hybridized with AI. So the challenge for everyone, including PrestaShop itself, is to use AI effectively, and therefore the challenge of training will remain, for me, that people are at the heart of the system and at the heart of the process. We saw the first use cases when ChatGPT version 3 was released. The first use case came a week later on PlayStation, through a community that I salute, which is really very responsive. That's the beauty of our model, and on three modules that allow you to optimize your product pages, which are the products that allow you to acquire traffic for free. So, the first thing you need to do as a retailer is to hybridize your solution with a tool that will optimize your product pages. You can do this in a way that works for you, and you can do it en masse with the right modules for your solution. Of course, there is the support aspect for the initial interactions, which are becoming increasingly effective. For example, I think that in terms of internationalization issues, AI is increasingly becoming an accelerator. So, of course, you'll have to adapt your e-commerce site to payment and logistics solutions, which we've already talked about, but on the product pages, how do you generate a product catalog that's optimized for the country? There you go, I have an accelerator. So it's an extremely powerful factor in terms of agility, but I'm also going to get it through tools that are increasingly powerful in terms of, as we were talking about, the engagement of our customer base. Scenarios are now based on AI that learn from your database, but ultimately the merchant was practical in terms of purchasing. We had developed a start-up, we were developing our models, but now we have them available in CRM solutions such as Klaviyo, for example, which will have scenarios that adapt to the context of your merchants based on what they learn, what the tool learns about purchasing practices on your site. That's great. So there you have it. To be successful on the web, to have the one-to-one interaction that you have in the physical world, where you recognize the person, that's it, that's the Holy Grail. We're at the beginning, but we're there, we're getting closer. There's still a lot, a lot to do with all of this. It's pretty impressive, and it's true that we, too, are trying to embrace these topics to further personalize the overall customer experience, make it more consistent, and increase its relevance. Because it's true that in the flow of messages we receive, the various and varied requests we get as consumers, we feel a little bit like we're just a number. So I think this is a real step forward for merchants, thanks to this personalization shown to each customer, who is recognized individually at their true value, simply to improve their satisfaction. Now, if we take a step back, I'm happy to say that we've been able to address our topics. On the PrestaShop side, in relation to the context and challenges we've just mentioned, what is the company's short-, medium-, and long-term strategy to support merchants in these developments? OK. And we'll call them the big star AI solutions that are open source based on open source models, which is really interesting, so we already share that model, and we've had it since the beginning, since 2008, 2005, 2008. So there you go. How do I see PrestaShop evolving? First, we're going to make PrestaShop Enterprise a success, and ultimately, it's a bit like the strategy, if you like, of targeting merchants who are scaling up and providing them with an ecosystem through PrestaShop Enterprise, where we have higher technical quality, stronger scalability, stronger operations, and advanced features. Gradually, we'll redeploy this across the board in our next versions, across the entire community. So we're keeping this customization challenge, it's key. Of course, we'll be making significant functional improvements in the coming years on the open source project and through our solutions and our partners. But our mission, and this is the open source model, is to create the conditions for innovation, and at PrestaShop, we've always had this in mind, but even more so now, and so it's a foundation that enables innovation. So we're going to integrate more and more solutions that will allow us to tailor the experience. We're going to continue to promote the agility of our merchants in adapting to their context through our solutions and our partners. We're going to continue to raise the bar for our technical foundation and our features, particularly in the B2B area. We have strong adoption in the B2B area, but we still have some work to do on standard features that we have through a number of partners, but which we will also reintegrate at some point into our model so that the story I told you earlier about Italian products can be facilitated for a number of players who are on board. So we have a lot of challenges ahead of us, which will take shape both in our software roadmap and through the strategic partnerships we have in place. Okay. Okay. That's all I can say at the moment. Yeah. It's been an hour-long interview, so I'm running a bit dry. No, no, no, it's fine. I wanted to ask you a question too, something you mentioned briefly just now, which is more for company executives and entrepreneurs. You see, you're in a fairly competitive environment, which is quite fierce and intense. What's your strategy in this environment to continue to differentiate PrestaShop? How do you position yourself in this regard? I'm interested. Well, competition is fierce when you have a very large player who wants to crush the market. It's fierce for us, it's fierce for all the other players. Yeah, of course. The strategy we mentioned is that there are several models, in fact, and reminding our market, our e-merchants, that there is life outside the SAS and that when you invest hundreds of thousands of euros, it's a good idea to see if you master the solution, if you control it or not. So we won't have the communication power of the very big players we think of. Nevertheless, the clarity of our message about the virtues of our model, our agility, our honor, and our ability to adapt to a rapidly changing environment is evident at the moment. You can see that the current geopolitical situation is shaking up all the rules, and our model is making sense as control becomes increasingly important. The question of getting off the ground, because we're on SaaS software that's managed elsewhere by foreign interests. E-merchants, you have strategic interests in your online sales tool. Consider the model, the model where you are, let's say a player, and you have full control over your development and your tool, which is strategic. Yeah. So in this fierce competition, we need to reaffirm our model. Yeah. That's it. Very clear. We can fight over features, I have more than you. Yes. Build the model. The values, the model. We have open source values that are about sharing, but we have a very powerful model. Okay. There you go. Very interesting. So no, but I think that's what it is, I see, we were talking about competition, it's the same for everyone. And so I think that's a pretty interesting topic, not to look at it again. I have this image of, I think it was Michael Phelps, you know, at the Olympics swimming, not looking at his competitor, who was looking to the side. Look at what Michael Phelps is doing, and in fact, we know who won at the end of the story. So ultimately, maybe for those who are wondering, yeah, go back a little bit to your vision of things, your fundamentals, clarify them to make them even more meaningful. And then also provide concrete solutions to facilitate the implementation of that vision in a way that's a little more turnkey than before. That's what I would take away from your advice. Absolutely, and you see, I'm a salesman myself at PrestaShop, but I'm finally at PrestaShop, the company, the brand, the core of the business, and that motivates me every morning because we have an ecosystem that we can evaluate. You see, we have 250 merchants, twenty-two million in revenue, 1,000,000 people working on this technology. That inspires us, it motivates us. I'm really happy to be at work, to be in this position right now, because I'm so convinced of the relevance of our model in this context, which means that, for me, we have incredible potential for development and potential to support our merchants. So there you have it, that's what I believe, and I hope I've managed to convey that to you today. Yes, that's right. That passion for commerce, that aspect, those challenges, that high-level sport that requires daily fine-tuning. We are convinced that we have the right solution and that the merchants who are equipped with our solution have full control over it. Very interesting. Last question to finish up. If I ask you, Eric, to take out your crystal ball and look a few years into the future, what do you think will be one of the most significant developments for e-commerce? That's an interesting question. You see, we've been through several different periods. So maybe it's the privilege ofage, if you like, or the disadvantage of age, but if you want, in the beginning, the ticket to e-commerce for a merchant was a bit heavy technically, it was complicated, but on the other hand, it was like the conquest of the West, the flag and the blue blood, and that shifted towards, let's say, much easier access to e-commerce, but now the competition has become fierce. So we had to reinvent ourselves, and new players have emerged, particularly in the marketplace, which is what we're seeing now, and so there's been a proliferation of touchpoints through marketplaces, social media, and shopping experiences through social media. The next big move for me is more of a question mark. The disruption we're currently experiencing with AI makes me think that tomorrow's shopping experience will be very different. You mean with search engines like on and even recommending things to you. You want to have an assistant. Yeah, yeah. Same thing last night, we were remaking the world with tech players on web quality and what's next. I don't know if it's Web 4 or what, but we're going to have a shopping assistant. For example, I'm looking for a product, and it can find the right one for me. Can you give me the three websites with the price, the date, etc.? Interaction, so I imagine if you want a future in a few years where you have the ability to manage your multi-six experience and have a system that manages your online orders and so on, but the front end itself. Yeah, that's it, actually. It's going to be completely, there's going to be a first stage with an assistant that will perhaps replace the marketplace, and there will be an assistant through your JPT chat, your Mistral tool, let's speak French, you see, so you'll have an initial filter. Right, I can see that, but it's really interesting. What do you think? Honestly, let me think about it. I pretty much agree with the experiential part. I think that, in fact, there has been a proliferation of offers recently. But demand is also impacted by a lot of things. And in fact, to make a difference, I really think it's the personalization aspect that will make the difference. And it's true that it's much easier to have a prompt to write to someone who can visit 10 websites at the same time and do a perfect benchmark than for you to spend 5 hours looking at all the sites, changing your mind, and so on and so forth. So, I'm pretty much on the same page as you on this new shopping experience.